Boston Got Burned In Kevin Garnett Deal

Word leaked out yesterday evening that the Boston Celtics and Minnesota Timberwolves had consummated a deal which would send Kevin Garnett to Boston in exchange for Al Jefferson, Gerald Green, Sebastian Telfair, Theo Ratliff and two future first round picks.

While Celtics fans are enamored with this deal I’m struggling to find reasons why there’s so much optimism coming from Boston.

The main problem I have with this deal is that the Celtics didn’t get that big of an improvement in Garnett when they dealt Jefferson away. Garnett averaged 22.4 points and 12.8 boards last season while Jefferson averaged 16 points and 11 boards. While glancing at the stats it looks like Boston will have a large upgrade at the power forward position but if you look at Jefferson’s output since the All-Star break you’ll notice that Jefferson overcame injuries that slowed him early in the season and posted All-Star numbers himself. Over his final 31 games Jefferson averaged an impressive 18.7 points and 11.4 boards despite facing double teams in the paint. With Paul Pierce and Wally Szczerbiak out of action Jefferson was the Celtics primary option on offense and despite teams trying to collapse on him in the paint he was the Celtics leading scorer most nights. It became clear while watching the Celtics last season that Jefferson would be the cornerstone of the franchise for the next decade and I don’t see the value in dealing him away for a player approaching the downside of his career.

Second, why would Boston give up on Gerald Green so quickly? Granted, he had a rough showing in Vegas and his sophomore season didn’t show a lot of improvement, but this time last year Green was being heralded as one of the pieces that Boston would build around. Why should a decent sophomore season and a weak summer league showing change that? I’m someone who thinks that Green’s showing in Vegas was an anomaly and that he’ll bounce back with increased playing time next season and eventually become an All-Star in the NBA. His game reminds me a lot of Tracy McGrady’s and his progression backs up those sentiments. During his rookie season Green averaged 5.2 points in 11.8 minutes of burn while last season he double those averages with 10.4 points in 22.0 minutes of playing time. Now, contrast that with McGrady who averaged 7.0 points per game his rookie season while playing 18.4 minutes and his sophomore season which saw him bump his scoring to 9.3 in 22.6 minutes.

Another aspect of this deal that sticks out are the injury issues that could result in Boston missing the playoffs next season. What happens if one or two of the Celtics trio goes down for an extended amount of time due to injuries? Ray Allen is coming off of surgery on both of his ankles while Pierce was limited to 47 games last year due to a variety of injuries so it’s clear that injuries are an issue with both of these players at this stage of their respective careers.

Something else that should make Celtics fans shudder is that the team is going to have to rely heavily on unproven youngsters like Glen Davis, Leon Powe, Gabe Pruitt and Brandon Wallace while giving big minutes and possibly starting young players such as Kendrick Perkins and Rajon Rondo. How can a team expect to be a legit title contender with so many young and inexperienced players playing such a large role with the team?

Speaking of giving young players extended roles, another problem this team has is a second-year player in Rajon Rondo running the show. How will Rondo have the maturity to run the offense with Pierce, Allen and Garnett all demanding the ball? Rondo is a great young player and is poised for a solid career but expecting a sophomore to guide this offense is a daunting task. Some Celtics fans are pointing to Tony Parker as a young point guard who led the Spurs to a Championship but something their selective amnesia is allowing them to forget that Parker had Avery Johnson to learn from and to play big minutes. If you’re a Celtics fan you better hope that Danny Ainge goes out and inks Brevin Knight or another veteran presence to help run the show next season.

Throw in the fact that this franchise is being coached by Doc Rivers and it’s downright laughable that people are already talking about Boston as being the top team in the Eastern Conference next season. Rivers fans will point out the fact that he was named NBA Coach of the Year following the 1999-2000 season but his team was bounced in the first round of the playoffs and his team only managed 41 wins that season and his team had Tracy McGrady and Grant Hill. How many NBA coaches couldn’t secure 41 wins with those two players on their squad. I’m not a huge fan of Rivers and I feel that his career winning percentage of .467% backs me up.

While Boston’s team looks great on paper – and would a title contender if this were fantasy hoops – Celtics Nation should be mortified with what Danny Ainge has done with the team this summer by mortgaging their once bright future.

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43 thoughts on “Boston Got Burned In Kevin Garnett Deal

  1. I hear ya. Your numbers are ok. I also think that almost all of your points could be argued the other way.

    Here is one thing you did not account for. Stars.

    I’ve never heard of any of the players mentioned, from the Boston side of this deal. OK, throw decent stats at me. I’ve still never heard of them.

    I have heard and will watch and follow the new Boston Trio. They also attract and influence defenses in much bigger ways than (yes, I’m going to say it) all of the no-names from Boston.

    Ainge had to make big moves to save his job! Boston’s future was not bright. It was there, but it was not bright. Now, the present is very clear. Hey, we’re talking about it! And, after all, this is “entertainment.”

  2. C’mon Toby, are you trying to tell me you’d take flash over substance? 🙂

    I agree that Ray Allen and KG are bigger names than anyone they dealt away but I can’t help but feel that they mortgaged their future for the next two seasons. What will you feel like as a Celtics fan five or ten years from now if Allen’s not able to play up to par because of his ankle surgeries or another one of that trio falls due to injuries? I can’t help but compare the current team structure in NJ with Kidd/Jefferson/Carter and how the loss of Nenad set the team back last season and they didn’t even win the Atlantic. Granted, they lacked a big man and you could argue that KG gives the Celtics that, but with both teams there’s a lack of depth outside of the main trio and I feel that hurts you during a 82 game season and best of seven playoff series.

  3. Fair enough. That’s also why San Antonio’s been so good. They’ve got depth, and cohesion from playing together for so long.

    Still, depth and good players and good coaching doesn’t mean you win it all. (See Mark Cuban for more info.)

    I’m still ok w/ Boston mortgaging some future for a couple years of some stars. They’re desperate. For them, the last couple years have really stunk.

  4. I think the main aspect you’re missing when comparing Garnett and Jefferson is that Garnett commands a double team. His presence, even if he’s missing all of his shots, demands a double team on every posession. KG can also knock down the long jumper/3-ball. He is a perimeter threat. How do teams double-team KG with Ray Allen wide open? The Celtics will be a defensive nightmare, something they weren’t with the players they had. Check out more of my rationale behind the trade at http://www.clutch3.com

  5. C3 – I’m just not buying into the hype man. I’ll give you the fact that KG commands a double team but what if Allen isn’t healthy next season? Those double teams will then be a curse as it will allow the defense to turn those double teams into lane cloggers that will just prevent Pierce from slashing to the hole and could negate his midrange game. Also, from what I recall Big Al was getting double teamed last season and did well.

    I just don’t see the point in cashing out for vets like Allen and KG who are now on the decline in their careers. Between Allen having surgery on both of his ankles this summer and KG posting the lowest field goal percentage of his career last season I’m just not feeling Ainge’s moves this summer.

  6. Well, I’m a Timberwolves fan, and it is very hard to see Kevin go. I’m a little excited about a new start, but to watch the face of your franchise get traded is very hard.

    I do agree though, if some of these player are as good as they could be, this deal could be a bad one for the Celtics. KG will be good, and will put up the same numbers.

    But what about their future after these players? And as you mentioned, they have no bench now.

  7. Hey Ryan, I’m with you.
    With Ray Allen being the guy that he is, with the injuries he has, and KG being at this point, a slightly better Chris Bosh, I have to wonder how these three guys’ statistics will change due to the need to share the ball. Add into the equation Boston’s total lack of bench, no tradable assets, and no draft picks, it just looks like a paper tiger to me in many ways.

    Does this team make the playoffs? Almost definitely. But Jersey, arguably, has a similar set up with 3 star players and a bunch of jobbers, and they aren’t anywhere near contending for the East Championship. So why should Boston? An inside presence?

    As a Raptor fan, I don’t think this team will beat up on teams that have depth and have multiple bodies at key positions. Chris Bosh can and has beat Kevin Garnett in just about every single matchup over the past two seasons. That leaves Allen and Pierce, who can possibly get double teamed. Who’s your forth scorer? Who’s the guy that comes in when one of these big three need a rest?

    To me, there’s more possibility of mess here than success. If the injury bug bites Boston in even a slight way, this team could be toast.

  8. I am suprised Boston fell for this. I remember Boston of old, they would have been in Timberwolves position. They are jus in a hurry to win another championship, so they are patching the potholes instead of tearing the road and resurface. What I am saying is that they gave up too much for KG. Minnessota just got back what they lost to Dallas in Hershel Walker deal. Go figure

  9. Team chemistry is essential for championship caliber basketball and both Pierce and Allen are not known as quality defenders. Factor in Garnett and the remaining 2 starters Doc Rivers rolls out with are the prime indicators on how successful the Celts’ will be. Ainge definitely hit the panic button and dumped all of his prior year picks for instant gratification while also wiping out future draft picks in the Garnet deal. Keep in mind Delonte West was shipped to Seattle so what did any of Ainge’s prior GM draft picks manifest to be other than trade bait for veteran All-Stars who’s best b-ball is behind them. Doc and Danny never recovered from tanking games last season (allegedly) to attain the 1st or 2nd overall picl in last year’s draft. The Celtic’s true benefit is at the bank where Ray Allen’s jersey is sold out to Xmas and KG’s number 5 will roll in the dough…Season tix box office bonanza will make Boston some needed loot to pay KG’s salary. Boston also becomes an attractive road draw based on the All-Star triumvirate.

    McHale and Minny rec’d KG’s best years and dumped his mammoth contract while setting up the Wolves future. The benefit definitely sways in favor of Minnesota if only they can blend all the new faces.

    The Celtics need to win it all or make a final appearance ( Danny’s only way out) to justify the literal wiping out of previous drafts. Therefore Doc Rivers the hoop world awaits how you package your “need the rock heavy” trio of Paul, Kevin, and Ray.

  10. TT- What’s the sentiment in Minnesota about getting to build around Big Al? I understand how losing KG would be tough (as a Raptors fan it’s been tough losing Vince Carter) but at least you get a future stud in Jefferson to build around. You get KG for the best years of his career and when he starts to drop a bit you trade for a player who could have a similar career but is heading into his fourth year in the NBA. You also have some nice pieces in Corey Brewer and Randy Foye to help ease the sting of losing KG.

    Kinnnon – Great minds think alike buddy 🙂 Great point about NJ as I would argue that the Nets at least have a bench , one of the top PG’s to ever play and solid post players (Big Cat, Nenad and some younger post players). Allen’s ankles have to scare the Celtics and Pierce himself wasn’t healthy last year – what happens if Pierce and/or Allen miss extended time? The Celtics could find themselves in the lottery again!

    Have you been watching Rogers Sportsnet this week? They held an online poll the day of the deal and over 70% of respondents still felt that the Raptors would win the Atlantic Division next season. At first chuckled that a bunch of “homers” were responding but after looking at where the Celtics currently find themselves I would still peg the Raptors as the favourites to win this division.

    Manny – Loved the NFL comparison!

    Eric – Something I’ve been reading is that Allen and Pierce don’t have to be great one-on-one defender as they just need to funnel their men into the lane so that Perks or KG can take away the midrange game. Are you buying into that?

  11. Ryan–Theoretically the ‘funnel” your offensive assignment to Garnett and Perkins makes sense yet in the NBA it’s about cumulative (all 5players) defensive rotation. Therefore my perspective is built on the premise of the NBA way of playing “D” (specifically Pierce and Allen) where time to time ball stoppage at the most critical offensive attack positions the shooting guard and small forward position are tantamount. Based on the body of work of Allen and Pierce they are prime offensive players who’s best defense is there offense.

    Doc Rivers has his work cut out blending a team of 3 players who have always been the “man” for there respective squads and finding 2 additional starters who will not defer to the Big 3 star status a most difficult task indeed based on the NBA caste system of Superstar, Star, Role Player, and Roster guy.

    Additionally manifesting a defensive approach and rotation schematic requires excellent lateral quickness and the temerity for defensive discipline. Somthing Paul Pierce and Ray Allen has never had as a focus hence their respective reputation as perimeter “pretty boys” with a prime offensive disposition.

  12. Wow that has a pretty one-sided & pessimistic argument against the trade for the Celtics. A few counterpoints.

    – One of the draft Picks the C’s traded was just an extra one that
    they got from Minnesota in the Ricky Davis Trade. So they’re gonna be missing their 1st round pick in 2009 (which should be a very late
    1st rounder.

    – All of the guys the C’s gave up only have one year left on their
    contracts, i.e. Jefferson, Green, Telfair, Ratliff, Gomes. Wheras teh C’s get 5 years of KG. Plus, there’s a good chance that Gomes (fundamentally sound excellent role player – ideal 6th man –
    who is a New england native & fan favorite) will return to the Celtics
    next year. (or sooner if they buy out his contract)

    – Pierce and Allen can put more energy into defense, now that their team isn’t desparate for them to avg 25 pts/game

    – With as good a shape that KG keeps himself in (and with such a high bball IQ) it won’t be surprising if he stays at an all-star level fo
    the 5 years remaining of his contract.

    – Allen’s deal ends in 3 years, PIerce’s in 4 years – so they will
    have massive amounts of cap space opening up – allowing them to
    reload with younger stars. If they’ve recently won a championship (or at least played in multiple Finals’) – a definite possibility in the next 3 years – than they’ll be a pretty attractive place to come play.

    – During the next 3 years, they’ve become a very attractive place for veterans (willing to play for little $) to come get a shot at a title. Apparently, they’ve already started calling the Celtics.
    http://www.celticsblog.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1047&Itemid=189

    – If teams as flawed as Miami and Cleveland can win a title / reach
    the finals in recent years, how can you not expect these Celtics to be
    contending for a title for the next 3 years??? In case you forgot, KG
    can guard Duncan, Stoudamire, and the other great big men in the West.

    A trio this talented (and all still in their primes at 32 and under)
    is unprecedented in the recent history of the NBA. I wouldn’t dismiss
    it so easily. Injuries are a concern, but with KG’s track record of
    never missing games (He’s not a Shaq), Allen’s pure shooting ability ( which doesn’t require youthful athleticism), and Pierce’s demonstrated ability to play through minor injuries, I like their chances.

  13. There’s a word for this team…
    the Bucks (of the 90’s)
    Ironically, Ray Allen was also on that team, and they didn’t amount to much. They seemed like they could always possibly go somewhere, but that had a lot to do with how people thought “Oh, these guys numbers, when added together, creates a great team”. It’s that same kind of fantasy pool mentality which led to the ridiculous predictions about the Raptors’ season last year. Listening to NBA TV last night almost gave me a headache, with all the praise going around to Boston for this deal.

    Ryan – If they’re in the lottery, and their picks aren’t protected, they could be screwed for a while. Not to mention their cash being tied up on three guys that are very difficult, if not impossible to move. Their defense is also going to be laughable, so I guess what you’re looking at is scoring more points than the other guys. I still have massive questions about turnovers, as none of those guys are good ball handlers, and they have no PG to boot. Should be interesting. I’m going to stay with the “I don’t think this’ll work” crowd, but I guess Boston can say “we’re doing SOMETHING”

    JM – You’re dreaming about Gomes going back. The chances of things like that happening are minimal. How many people have we expected to return to their previous team because “they loved it there” (*koff* Ryan Smith *koff*) only to turn around and go to someone else. Defense has never been the Celtics’ strong point. Neither has been turnovers. You’re talking about people coming up for little money cause your team supposedly will have success. There’s a lot of hypothetical there based on just winning, in addition to the fact that you believe that the team will have that kind of pull in the free agent market. Other than with Phoenix and Miami, that doesn’t really happen around the league. And speaking of Miami, doing that kind of strategy has just worked out so well for them the past year, hasn’t it?

  14. Kinnon – Great point about the Bucks! I remember watching one of their “classic” games on Raptors TV and they weren’t nearly good as they were hyped up to be (even with a legit floor general in Sam I Am). I think a big reason why I’m worried is that without a floor general – something the current Nets and former Bucks teams had – the Celtics offense could flounder. Plus, the whole injury concern but I don’t want to get into that again.

    JM – Thanks for taking the time to check out the site (I’m assuming you found us through Celtics Blog) and I apologize if it came across as me blasting your team. The reason for this post is that the majority of the media were for the trade and I just wanted to express the concerns that I have with the deal.

    Now, in regards to your points, great point about most of those players only have a year left on the deal. It would have been tough to sing all of those guys guys and to package them for KG for five years is a solid move for the Celtics. The problem Boston now faces is that 60 million of their 70 million cap are invested in three players and it doesn’t leave room for the rest of their 12 man roster. Plus, what happens if Allen can’t come back from his ankle surgery? I remember reading an article online that jump shooters fade drastically once they hit their 30’s and when combined with surgery on both ankles this summer it made me cringe to see the Celtics invest so much into him.

    I disagree with the thought that “Pierce and Allen can put more energy into defense, now that their team isn’t desparate for them to avg 25 pts/game.” If these players hadn’t shown a strong desire to play D in the past I don’t see how that will magically change this season. To me that’s just wishful thinking, sorry.

    In regards to your point that “if teams as flawed as Miami and Cleveland can win a title / reach the finals in recent years, how can you not expect these Celtics to be contending for a title for the next 3 years???” I think Kinnon summed it up best with his point about the Bucks and I would use the current Nets as an example.

    Again, thanks for taking the time to check out the site and offering up your thoughts. I hope our dislike for this deal doesn’t prevent you from coming back 🙂

  15. I’ve been a big celtics fan for years and I have mixed feeling about this trade. I just don’t know about featuring Garnett in a high post offense with the wings running around getting free for jumpers. Pierce is predominantly an iso player, him and and Garnett – who is also an iso player -getting in the way. What’s Rondo going to do, bring the ball over half court and hand it to Garnett. What a waste of his talent. Garnett and Pierce are not uptempo guys. It would have been better to keep Delonte West rather than Rondo. He does better in a motion half court game. Generally speaking offensive minded player are not great defenders. The bench situation has already been mentioned.

  16. Hey Ryan

    i will be the first 1 to say eastern conference champions. there has not been a 3some like this since the days of run T.M.C. now yes they do not have a deep bench, but lowe is a rising star. Powe can play ball and with a mentor like garnett, he will raise his game to a level that the no one though. Rondo at the point is going to be very nice. Kendrick perkins is there to fill up the lane and block shots. but lets get back to the main 3 here.

    Ray Allen
    Paul Pierce
    Kevin Garnett

    how are you ever going to double team 1 of these guys ? its going to be impossible. this tandum is something that the eastern conference needed to compete with the solid teams in the west. Other then Chicago, no team in the east has a chance now at making a run to the finals. yes i said it the bulls. With the addition of noah to their front court that makes 3 shot blockers and with deng gordon and heinrich shifting in and out………. impressive.

    all in all the celtics WILL dominate the league this year.

    and rondo will be a way better then delonte west since delonte west is not a true PG. Nelson ran the point at st. joes while he just shot jumpers.

    i also will be the first to say that jefferson……… monster fantasy year. He will be top 20 in every league.

  17. Great work as usual. Minnesota milked every ounce they could from KG and though they are now overly stocked at SG/SF, they can now move forward with the rebuilding effort.

    I’m not sure that Boston exactly ‘gave up’ on Gerald Green. He was the 2nd- or 3rd-most essential piece of the trade (arguably, the draft pick returning to the T’Wolves is the 2nd-most essential piece). Also, if Minnesota did not demand Green (who can play 3 positions) to be included, Boston is not in a position to re-sign him next year.

    As for Rondo, think of it this way – he’s the equivalent of a college senior. He’s very talented and a great slasher on a team of shooters, so I like his potential. Nevertheless, he may be prone to turnovers. Time will tell.

    Is there an over/under on how many games the Big 3 will play together in 2007-08 and 2008-09? I’ll go with 63 this year and 49 next.

  18. Green Doc – Welcome to the site! Glad to see that some Celtics fans are finding the site today through Celtics Blog and other Celtics blogs. You raised some great points about how KG will fit with fierce as iso players and questioning how Rondo will fit into the picture. However, as much as I’ve ripped on this deal I feel that Boston will be a 50 win team much like the Bucks in the ’90’s with Allen/Big Dog and Cassel and the current Nets with Carter/Jefferson/Kidd. I just hope that your trio stays healthy so that they can get those 50 wins and excite Celtics Nation all season – it would be a shame if the injury bug hits this season.

    Brendan – Great to have you commenting in the site again! Have you heard anything about Monday hoops? Is it running during the summer or is Calvin taking a break to do family stuff?

    Wow, Eastern Conference champs? That’s a bold statement considering the issues mentioned in the post and the comments section. Doesn’t this squad remind you of the Bucks with Allen/Big Dog/Cassell or the current Nets squad of Kidd/Jefferson/Carter? You mentioned TMC but if memory serves me correctly they didn’t advance that far into the playoffs either. The trio that Boston formed will sell tickets I can’t help but feel that it’s a matter of flash instead of substance. Besides, even the Lakers a couple years back tried this with Kobe/Shaq/Payton/Malone and they couldn’t win a Championship, why would this Boston squad be any different?

    If Rondo will be better than West than how come he couldn’t start ahead of an injured West last season?

    Does anyone know if a team has gone from the worst record in their conference to repping that conference in the NBA Finals the following year? Granted, Boston has made a lot of changes to their roster so it’s hard to compare this season to last, but along those same lines it will take this group a lot of time to adjust. Between adjusting to the trio controlling the ball on offense to working in a bunch of younger players into the rotation Doc Rivers has his work cut out for himself and his track record has me doubting how effective he’ll be at this.

  19. Payman – Thanks for the props on the article!

    I agree that Minnesota did a great job with their situation. Remember a couple seasons back what happened to Toronto when Wince Carter wanted out of town? They ended up with Zo who promptly retired (and after getting a huge buyout inked with Miami), Aaron Williams, Eric Williams and two first round picks. The fact that Minnesota got Jefferson, Green, Ratliff’s expiring contract and two first round picks makes me even more bitter about the Rob Babcock era.

    Great point about Rondo being a college senior and that fans shouldn’t give up on him, but, as a Celtics fan do you really want that young of a kid running the show? That’s like getting a brand new car and giving it to your college kid to take away for the weekend. There’s no way you trust a kid with that kind of thing.

  20. Here’s some more talented trio’s that failed to win a Championship:

    A) Dominique Wilkins, Moses Malone and Reggie Theus in Atlanta

    B) Hakeem Olajuwon, Charles Barkley and Scottie Pippen in Houston

  21. The thing is, I can’t think off the top of my head, where a “big three” has even come close to winning a championship. It’s usually a big 2 with a bunch of guys, or just a bunch of fairly evenly distributed talent. I haven’t followed the league for more than 17 years, so I can’t say it’s never happened, but especially in a salary cap era, I’m pretty certain it hasn’t been done. Therefore, I will remain a skeptic until this Boston team (barring no/few injuries) gets it done.

  22. Successful Championship Big Three Trio’s

    1. Lakers: Kareem Abdul Jabbar>James Worthy>Magic Johnson
    additional starters (Byron Scott & Kurt Rambis future NBA Head Coach’s)

    2. Celtics: Larry Bird>Kevin McHale>Robert Parrish

    additional starters (Danny Ainge future NBA Head Coach & GM & the late Dennis Johnson future NBA assistant and NBDL Head Coach)

    3. Sixers: Dr. J>Moses Malone>Mo Cheeks

    additional starters (All-Star Andrew Toney and Marc Iavoroni future NBA Head coach)

    4. Spurs: David Robinson>Tim Duncan>Sean Elliot

    (Avery Johnson was the point guard and a future NBA Head Coach)

    5. Knicks: Earl “the Pearl” Monroe>Walt “Clyde” Frazier>Willis Reed

    Additional starters Dave Debusschere future NBA GM and Bill Bradley future US Senator. Phil jackson future NBA coach with 9 titles as a leader prominent role player.

    The Knicks starting 5 are all in the Hall of fame.

    Hence the need for high basketball IQ role player to play with 3 great players if a title is to be earned. Peace…

  23. Thanks Eric. Though, I’m not sure I would count the Spurs with them (Sean Elliot wasn’t really that much better than Terry Porter, Avery Johnson et al). They’re the only team I can think within the Salary Cap era that has something like that. I think it’s very important to note the Salary Cap era part, because I think all those “big 3” teams that you listed were able to fill their roster out with additional strong role players because they had the ability to spend for them. In addition, I don’t think the big 3 on any of those teams monopolized as much of the team salary as the modern big 3s such as the Nets or the Bucks.

  24. Are you kidding me? Are you a fan of basketball or a GM?

    The bottom line is this: before the Celtics were horrible and could not have been less exciting to watch. Now they will be a great team that will be extremely entertaining. I am already excited about catching them at MSG.

    The difference is truly like night and day.

    In three years…honestly you don’t know what will happen. Right now the Celtics are a team that people want to see, and that’s what the business of basketball is all about.

  25. Kinnon some info on Sean Elliot and how he outweighs Porter and johnson significantly as a player:

    Sean Elliot’s contribution as a Spur:

    Elliott is the all-time franchise leader in three-point field goals made (563) and attempted (1,485). He is also the only player in Spurs history to rank among the franchise’s top ten in six different statistical categories: games played (third, 669), points (fourth, 9,659), rebounds (sixth, 2,941), assists (seventh, 1,700), steals (eighth, 522), and blocks (ninth, 257).

    Elliott was an instrumental part of the Spurs’ successful NBA title quest in 1999: he tight-roped the right sideline and launched a three-point basket to edge the Portland Trail Blazers in Game 2 of the Western Conference Finals. This play, referred to as the “Memorial Day Miracle”, shifted the momentum of the series to the Spurs.

    Shortly after the championship run, Elliott announced that he had played despite having a kidney disease, focal segmental glomerulosclerosis, and that he would require a transplant. He underwent surgery on August 16 of that year, receiving a kidney from his brother, Noel. On March 13, 2000, Elliott became the first player to return after a kidney transplant, in a game against the Atlanta Hawks. He announced his retirement in 2001.

    On March 6, 2005, his #32 jersey was retired and hung in the rafters of the AT&T Center.

    ELLIOT RETURNED AND PLAYED AFTER A KIDNEY TRANSPLANT translation: the only NBA player to have done so and a icon for all people that life and high achievement continues after a serious health challenge.

  26. Eric – No, I don’t doubt his impact. My brother was a huge Spurs fan, so I really followed the team as a result. I’m not saying that he wasn’t a big player. But, he’s not what I think of, when I think of a “big 3” type… Like 3 consumate all stars that are known league-wide. That’s what I think about, when I think about a big 3. He might be bigger than Avery or Porter, but in that first Spur team, I’m not sure most people would categorize him as that type of player.

    In another way, it’d be like saying the Bulls were a Big 3 team, with Kerr or Paxson on their team. At least, that’s how I’d equate it in my head.

  27. Hey ryan

    Basketball is cancelled untill sept 10th

    as for having a big 3. can you name a big 3 that had all 3 players in the prime of their career like these 3 ?.

    i cannot wait for this season to start. opening night features the champ vs. the up and comming in oden vs duncan. gotta love the nba for allowing oden to walk into his career with duncan all over him. hopefully it wont be too embaressing.

    all in all boston did not get burned on this deal. how can you get burned when you turned a bunch of scrubs and al jefferson into garnett (easily 1 of the best nba players) ? if you are a gm and you have a chance to get garnett , you dont blow it. This big 3 will win the east (defeating the bulls in the E finals) but i still feel that the spurs will take them out.

    sorry guys i gotta go im getting a phone call……………………. its kobe. he deided he wants to be traded again since he saw the kg deal and feels that the lakers are not stepping up to the plate.

  28. KG’s 22 & 12 last season was in the Western Conference.

    With the current exchange rate thats like 44 pts and 24 reb in the Eastern Conference.

    Boston got a steal.

    Doc’s not dumb… he’s trying to build a New England version of the Spurs, only with KG playing TD.

  29. For a Big-3 playing in there actual prime, you’d have to go with the Run-TMC Warriors.

    Tim Hardaway
    Mitch Richmond
    Chris Mullin

    The highest scoring trio in NBA history, averaging almost 75 pts/game between the 3 of them.

  30. Hey Ryan,
    I just read a counter to your assertion that Pierce and Allen won’t be able to play good defense this year, since they haven’t shown a strong desire to play D in the past.

    SI’s Jack Mccallum recently wrote the following:

    “Garnett, a stout-hearted warrior, should help solve the defensive problem. As the three new teammates huddled in Doc Rivers’s office after the press conference, the Boston coach was about to bring up the D word when Garnett beat him to it. “The only way we’re going to win anything is if we play defense,” Garnett said. Everyone agreed to make it a priority. The consensus around the league: Pierce and Allen are inclined to either yield or commit a needless foul when driven upon, but both have the ability to be terrific defenders if motivated.”

    I think the last sentence is the main rebuttal. And as Jeff from celticsblog.com has said:

    “I can’t imagine a better motivation than a legit shot at banner 17, but helping the cause will be Garnett’s overflowing personality and the addition of a defensive guru coach.”

  31. hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

    “The main problem I have with this deal is that the Celtics didn’t get that big of an improvement in Garnett when they dealt Jefferson away.”

    Why on Earth does Henry Abbott link to this site?

  32. Through Boston’s first four games things look great… but what happens when one of the big three gets injured?

    Boston Dan – I agree that I worded things wrong, that quote should have said “The main problem I have with this deal is that the Celtics didn’t get that big of an improvement in regards to personal when in Garnett when they dealt Jefferson away.” If you look at the numbers both players posted last season they were comparable. There are some obvious differences in regards to veteran leadership, experience and other intangibles.

  33. You bring up some very valid points in this article, but it seems as though you are “dogging” the Celtics. It is now November and the Celtics are currently 7-0, best record in the NBA. What do you have to say to that? The Celtics did get a little bit older, but we still have talented youngsters like Glen Davis and Rajon Rondo. I mean, have you seen Rando play? This guy is incredible! Danny Ainge made a good deal because he is thinking short term! He wants a championship and he wants it now. Thats a good instinct to have! Thinking longterm when it comes to basketball usually never works because there are 29 other teams competeting against you. Danny Ainge wants to win now and now he is winning, thus making Celtics NATION very happy.

  34. Kudos to Boston for their strong start… but who cares about what happens in November? What did a strong season get Dallas last year? A first round exit.

    I’ll willingly admit that Boston’s had a great first month but I was never worried about them playing well in stretches during the regular season. My concern has been what they will do through the entire season – I still don’t feel that the main three will stay healthy for a playoff push.

    This summer dealt away their future for a chance to win it all this season – if they don’t win it all then I feel Ainge let down Celtics fans. Sure, getting all hyped for this season will be fun but it will amount to nothing more than a nasty hangover five years from now if the teams bursts out of the gate and fizzles by May.

  35. Myles – How do you figure? Unless Boston wins a Championship then this deal didn’t make any sense for them. Yeah, it’s created a buzz and they are off to a great start but unless they win it all this season Ainge has set the franchise back as within two years they’ll be a mess again.

    Like I mentioned earlier, look at Dallas last season… they almost set the season record for wins and fizzled in the first round of the playoffs. Who care if Boston wins say 70 games but injuries derail the season? Pierce, KG and Allen haven’t shown they can win in the playoffs, which is the only season that matters.

  36. Boy does your rambling make you look stupid this far into the season. You seem to be a bean counter or something similar since you place so much value on statistical data only.

    What you failed to see is that numbers only show half of the truth. The other half is not measurable on paper… It has to do with leadership, trust and sportsmanship.

    The Celtics are doing so well because of team play and strong leadership (and great Defense). Just like the Lakers are doing better now because Kobe is finally passing the ball instead of scoring 60 a game but taking 75% of the teams shots to do so and still losing.

    Should KG or Pierce get injured the season will be over. It’s the same thing though for any other team which loses their franchise player (Suns w/o Nash? Spurs w/o Duncan?) You don’t have to be a Rocket Scientist to figure that one out.

    Boston now is a real Contender. Even if they don’t “win it all”, the season wouldn’t have been a bust since it created so much positive buzz for the team. This means the team was able to earn more from ticket sales as well as merchandising which will help the team in the long run.

    Just my two cents. Thanks for reading.

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